My third post in this series of church visits generated a fair amount of feedback because it highlighted the issue that Christian extremism still exists in Mississippi. When the post was featured on the Friendly Atheist blog, one commenter suggested that I visit the First Presbyterian Church in Oxford. I live in Oxford, so it was a natural pick.
Traffic is heavy because Eli Manning is in town and I made it to church at few minutes late (which I can't stand). I slipped in the back door, grabbed a bulletin and sat on the back pew after 8:30 AM. Today was "Youth Sunday 2008," which means that the entire service was conducted by the church youth. I know nothing about the traditions of the Presbyterian faith, so if anyone would like to comment on this, I would appreciate it. This church visit was certainly an improvement over my last visit.
I made a quick headcount estimate of 150 people. The church building is small, but beautiful. The walls are lined with gorgeous stained glass windows, each depicting a popular story from the Bible. There is a large organ and a choir pit for 20 members. A cross made out of cedar timber rest in the front corner of the auditorium.
The service outline was long and took over two pages of the bulletin to print every song, prayer, and poem in the program. Every word of every prayer was in the outline, as were some of the shorter songs. The service had an odd arrangement where everyone was required to sit or stand at different times and this wasn't announced or printed in the bulletin. I stood after everyone stood up and sat when I saw everyone sit back down. Some cues would have been helpful.
The regular church-goers wore their traditional Sunday clothes. The youth all wore black t-shirts with the words "Even the smallest light shines," which was this Sunday's theme.
Instead of one lesson, there were four lessons, each given by a high school student. Each lesson had to draw from the theme found in Ephesians 5:8-14. The first speaker was a girl! I have never been in a church service where the lesson was given by a female. This was the most pleasant surprise of the morning. There are passages in the Bible which directly say that the women must learn in silence and it takes courage to realize that this is sexist and should be ignored. She talked about the darkness that she faced because she is a senior who still didn't know where she wanted to go for college or what might be her major. The other three speakers talked about circumstances where they felt in the dark: a friend who committed suicide, a sister in the hospital, and an encounter with a stranger as a young child. Only one of the speakers referenced a Bible verse: John 3:16-21. "John 3:16" is a classic sign to see at sporting events, but the rest of the passage is lesser known. I would like to write a critical critique of that passage, but I'll save it for a later time since the speaker is a high school student and was probably only using the passage because it is classic.
After the lesson, there was the offering, three girls sang a beautiful hymn and then the communion followed. The head preacher gave a nice, short talk about the purpose of the communion: it should be for everyone who is interested in Christ and wanting what he has to offer. Rather than pass the communion on plates through the aisles, everyone in the church stood up and in an organized manner walked to the front of the room to take it. I was the only one in the room to stay in my pew and I know I looked like an oddball.
One of the youth played his guitar during the communion and it took me a second to realize that he wasn't playing a hymn. He was playing the Black Crows' "She Talks to Angels," which is funny because it's a song about drug addiction. After the service, we all walked out into the church court yard. The head preacher, an older gentleman, walked up to me, gave me an odd dap handshake and said, "What's up, my man? All is well?" I have to respect a man who tries to reach out to a younger culture, even if I don't know which younger culture he's trying to reaching.
Tags: atheist, nonbeliever, church, Mississippi, Oxford, Christian extremism, First Presbyterian Church, Eli Manning, women, bible
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17 comments:
I'm curious. Why are you visiting churches and providing descriptions of their respective services? Does it matter?
Hi Hank. The truth is that I'm experimenting. If I have readers, I'll keep doing this. If not, I'll write about something else. These post show Christians how they are viewed by non-believers and show non-believers a glimpse into something they usually avoid. I realize that this particular service wasn't that interesting, but I'm trying to do this once a week. It will matter when Christians take notice and start giving me feedback.
Just wanted to note that all moderate to liberal protestant denominations ordain women. Actually most of the churches I've been a member of including my current had/have women pastors. I've been enjoying your posts on this. Interesting to read.
Well, I thought it was interesting, and I still think it is an awesome idea for a blog.
I love it when people think that if something doesn't matter to them, it wont matter to anyone else either.
This really is a great idea for a blog series. I had thought about doing it myself, but during the spring gardening season, my Sundays are far to valuable to spend in church.
I absolutely love this series. I couldn't do it myself, but I sure am glad someone is up to the challenge. The contrast between this church and last week's is an important lesson in and of itself.
I believe this series not only matters but it is critical. We always lament that Christians don't take the time to really get to know us and what we do stand for. Likewise, how can we get to know them if we don't reach out in some way?
I think this series goes a long way into dispelling the "typical Christian" stereotype and showing us ways we can find common ground with our fellow humans. If we can see many of these Christians as people who share some of our values rather than just hypocrites and freaks, then we have come that much closer to the day when we will be shown the same consideration.
I grew up Catholic in Mexico so the very notion of Protestant "orderly communion" made me chuckle...I recall pushing, shoving, elbowing, side-stepping, numerous pinches-in-the-rear, gropes and even low-voiced catcalls from slimy and MARRIED "true-believers", on a Sunday, at church...Atheists are better behaved...LOL!!!
I understand you're experimenting with this. Consider this. Do you learn everything you need to know about children by visiting a grade school classroom for an hour? How about animals when visiting a zoo? My point is that this seems more like emphasizing the difference between us and them. While it would certainly take more time and effort, I think we could learn more if we asked questions. Why did they stand or sit when they did? Why did the high school kids do the lessons? Did they know that "She Talks to Angels" was about drug addiction? What are the basic beliefs of the church?
Why the emphasis on Christian churches? I realize they may be few and far between but are there no Buddhist temples, mosques, synagogues to visit as well?
As an atheist, I don't agree with the multitude of available religious beliefs, but understanding them is the only way you can honestly refute them.
If you have one in the area, I suggest visiting your local Seventh Day Adventist. They always made me feel very "welcome" when I forced to go a young lad. Old vegetarians, very strong hands though, kinda like Germans with more wacky ideas..
Your blog on visiting the Presbyterian is interesting, but I did not get a real impression of your thoughts regarding Christianity. Maybe I will find that in another of your posts.
Beyond that, Hank did have a few points regarding why certain things happened. Of course, asking the questions would expose you to the members of the church, and you might not want that.
I will attempt to answer some of Hank's questions, but different churches do different things. I attend a Lutheran Church(LCMS), and I consider the one I attend to be moderate.
"Why did they sit or stand when they did?" - Most likely because of reverence to God or Jesus. Times to stand could include praying (including saying the Lord's Prayer), Saying a Creed, and Singing to God (Praising Him).
"Why did the High School kids do the lesson?" - Possibly as a part of Service Project. A service project can be where kids are asked to perform mission work over a couple weeks period in another city, put together a worship service, participate in a worship service, or help in some other humanitarian act such as feeding the hungry, or working with HUD to build a home.
"Did they know that "She Talks to Angels" was about drug addiction?" - Maybe. Maybe not. I have just read the lyrics and it is good you pointed out that it is about drug addiction, because the way I read it, it is about pain addiction. Possibly that she is addicted to pain and cuts herself so that all her emotional pain goes away, at least for a little while, and that makes her smile. Beyond that, I interpret the portion that mentions the lock of hair and the cross as Hope. The hope for happier times that the lock of hair represents. The Cross is the hope to meet someone who will make her feel loved and wanted. This is what Jesus represents. My interpretation as to why it may have been used in a church service.
"What are the basic beliefs of the church?" - You already know the basic belief of the Church. That Jesus Christ is the son of God who died (was sacrificed) on the cross for our sins so that when we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we will have everlasting life. Beyond that, many people like to put into place "laws" to keep us on the straight and narrow. Those "laws" are meaningless. If you truly love Christ, you will do your best to follow the only commandment he gave: "Love one another as I have loved you". Is there a more simple way to peace, Christian or not? There are many ways to carry out a worship service, and God does not say how one should worship. The love for Jesus will lead one to worship. That worship, expression of love for Christ, will take the form with which you are most comfortable.
Now, I have a response to the following statement: "understanding them is the only way you can honestly refute them." While that is true, I will now ask if you understand the rising and setting of the sun. Refuting it does not make what happens to be untrue.
I hope this helps the discussion.
Too funny. Asking me if I can refute that which exists.
You said.....
There are passages in the Bible which directly say that the women must learn in silence and it takes courage to realize that this is sexist and should be ignored.
Are you, an atheist, suggesting how Christians should practice their religion?
It takes courage to recognize sexism and homophobia in the Bibble and stand up to the bigotry. Christians can hate all they want in the private practice of their beliefs. The natives can burn books, burn effigies, burn CDs, burn posters, burn Mickey Mouse, kick Spongebob, down copies of Harry Potter with Kool-Aid, take baseball bats to their TVs, etc. Their quaint yet cute and mildly folkloric beliefs become a BIG problem when they spill over into the public sphere to trample on the civil rights of others in order to eviscerate the rule of SECULAR law and SECULAR institutions.
Hello, JazzyCat. Good to hear from you again. It does sound like I'm dictating how Christians should practice their religion. I want them all to accept evolution as valid science, but this is hopeful thinking. It is also hopeful thinking with regard to sexism. I hope Christians will denounce sexism where ever it exist, but they are free to practice however they please. Because churches today hold quite a bit of influence in our society, they also have some responsibility to be good stewards. I hope they can see how certain passages of the Bible conflict with this goal.
Of course as a Christian who does believe in evolution, LGBT equality and likes EPCOT, I find what passes for religious discourse in this country just as disconcerting as others on this site. I suppose that's a way of saying that particular social values cut across religious lines in this country and around the world.
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