tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post7846337492356501891..comments2008-04-17T21:18:17.078-05:00vjackhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05868095335395368227noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-26500616532559935052008-04-17T21:18:00.000-05:002008-04-17T21:18:00.000-05:00Of course as a Christian who does believe in evolution, LGBT equality and likes EPCOT, I find what passes for religious discourse in this country just as disconcerting as others on this site. I suppose that's a way of saying that particular social values cut across religious lines in this country and around the world.Dwighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01022414933969854363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-87468096609602104892008-04-17T19:20:00.000-05:002008-04-17T19:20:00.000-05:00Hello, JazzyCat. Good to hear from you again. It does sound like I'm dictating how Christians should practice their religion. I want them all to accept evolution as valid science, but this is hopeful thinking. It is also hopeful thinking with regard to sexism. I hope Christians will denounce sexism where ever it exist, but they are free to practice however they please. Because churches today hold quite a bit of influence in our society, they also have some responsibility to be good stewards. I hope they can see how certain passages of the Bible conflict with this goal.Oliverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12189376308772445304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-55596888223820266242008-04-17T17:43:00.000-05:002008-04-17T17:43:00.000-05:00It takes courage to recognize sexism and homophobia in the Bibble and stand up to the bigotry. Christians can hate all they want in the private practice of their beliefs. The natives can burn books, burn effigies, burn CDs, burn posters, burn Mickey Mouse, kick Spongebob, down copies of Harry Potter with Kool-Aid, take baseball bats to their TVs, etc. Their quaint yet cute and mildly folkloric beliefs become a BIG problem when they spill over into the public sphere to trample on the civil rights of others in order to eviscerate the rule of SECULAR law and SECULAR institutions.Barbiebrainshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15526164543576146003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-89728563982524091022008-04-17T09:54:00.000-05:002008-04-17T09:54:00.000-05:00You said.....<BR/><EM>There are passages in the Bible which directly say that the women must learn in silence and it takes courage to realize that this is sexist and should be ignored.</EM><BR/><BR/>Are you, an atheist, suggesting how Christians should practice their religion?jazzycathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-91390497999518355012008-04-16T13:51:00.000-05:002008-04-16T13:51:00.000-05:00Too funny. Asking me if I can refute that which exists.Hankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15243840232233423724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-45717337137872965842008-04-15T08:54:00.000-05:002008-04-15T08:54:00.000-05:00Your blog on visiting the Presbyterian is interesting, but I did not get a real impression of your thoughts regarding Christianity. Maybe I will find that in another of your posts.<BR/><BR/>Beyond that, Hank did have a few points regarding why certain things happened. Of course, asking the questions would expose you to the members of the church, and you might not want that.<BR/><BR/>I will attempt to answer some of Hank's questions, but different churches do different things. I attend a Lutheran Church(LCMS), and I consider the one I attend to be moderate.<BR/><BR/>"Why did they sit or stand when they did?" - Most likely because of reverence to God or Jesus. Times to stand could include praying (including saying the Lord's Prayer), Saying a Creed, and Singing to God (Praising Him).<BR/><BR/>"Why did the High School kids do the lesson?" - Possibly as a part of Service Project. A service project can be where kids are asked to perform mission work over a couple weeks period in another city, put together a worship service, participate in a worship service, or help in some other humanitarian act such as feeding the hungry, or working with HUD to build a home.<BR/><BR/>"Did they know that "She Talks to Angels" was about drug addiction?" - Maybe. Maybe not. I have just read the lyrics and it is good you pointed out that it is about drug addiction, because the way I read it, it is about pain addiction. Possibly that she is addicted to pain and cuts herself so that all her emotional pain goes away, at least for a little while, and that makes her smile. Beyond that, I interpret the portion that mentions the lock of hair and the cross as Hope. The hope for happier times that the lock of hair represents. The Cross is the hope to meet someone who will make her feel loved and wanted. This is what Jesus represents. My interpretation as to why it may have been used in a church service.<BR/><BR/>"What are the basic beliefs of the church?" - You already know the basic belief of the Church. That Jesus Christ is the son of God who died (was sacrificed) on the cross for our sins so that when we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour, we will have everlasting life. Beyond that, many people like to put into place "laws" to keep us on the straight and narrow. Those "laws" are meaningless. If you truly love Christ, you will do your best to follow the only commandment he gave: "Love one another as I have loved you". Is there a more simple way to peace, Christian or not? There are many ways to carry out a worship service, and God does not say how one should worship. The love for Jesus will lead one to worship. That worship, expression of love for Christ, will take the form with which you are most comfortable.<BR/><BR/>Now, I have a response to the following statement: "understanding them is the only way you can honestly refute them." While that is true, I will now ask if you understand the rising and setting of the sun. Refuting it does not make what happens to be untrue.<BR/><BR/>I hope this helps the discussion.Hegemonyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06363806928329671650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-78256421080351772972008-04-14T23:33:00.000-05:002008-04-14T23:33:00.000-05:00If you have one in the area, I suggest visiting your local Seventh Day Adventist. They always made me feel very "welcome" when I forced to go a young lad. Old vegetarians, very strong hands though, kinda like Germans with more wacky ideas..Charred Atheisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09918104655528794073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-6824111786181558512008-04-14T23:26:00.000-05:002008-04-14T23:26:00.000-05:00I understand you're experimenting with this. Consider this. Do you learn everything you need to know about children by visiting a grade school classroom for an hour? How about animals when visiting a zoo? My point is that this seems more like emphasizing the difference between <I>us</I> and <I>them</I>. While it would certainly take more time and effort, I think we could learn more if we asked questions. Why did they stand or sit when they did? Why did the high school kids do the lessons? Did they know that "She Talks to Angels" was about drug addiction? What are the basic beliefs of the church?<BR/><BR/>Why the emphasis on Christian churches? I realize they may be few and far between but are there no Buddhist temples, mosques, synagogues to visit as well?<BR/><BR/>As an atheist, I don't agree with the multitude of available religious beliefs, but understanding them is the only way you can honestly refute them.Hankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15243840232233423724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-44665924914263421712008-04-14T19:04:00.000-05:002008-04-14T19:04:00.000-05:00I grew up Catholic in Mexico so the very notion of Protestant "orderly communion" made me chuckle...I recall pushing, shoving, elbowing, side-stepping, numerous pinches-in-the-rear, gropes and even low-voiced catcalls from slimy and MARRIED "true-believers", on a Sunday, at church...Atheists are better behaved...LOL!!!Barbiebrainshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15526164543576146003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-42535444041278627182008-04-14T07:31:00.000-05:002008-04-14T07:31:00.000-05:00I believe this series not only matters but it is critical. We always lament that Christians don't take the time to really get to know us and what we do stand for. Likewise, how can we get to know them if we don't reach out in some way?<BR/><BR/>I think this series goes a long way into dispelling the "typical Christian" stereotype and showing us ways we can find common ground with our fellow humans. If we can see many of these Christians as people who share some of our values rather than just hypocrites and freaks, then we have come that much closer to the day when we will be shown the same consideration.Agnosticathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15052063346449616220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-2886925748423729022008-04-14T07:06:00.000-05:002008-04-14T07:06:00.000-05:00I absolutely love this series. I couldn't do it myself, but I sure am glad someone is up to the challenge. The contrast between this church and last week's is an important lesson in and of itself.vjackhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05868095335395368227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-23320551252381620782008-04-14T06:48:00.000-05:002008-04-14T06:48:00.000-05:00This really is a great idea for a blog series. I had thought about doing it myself, but during the spring gardening season, my Sundays are far to valuable to spend in church.Butchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11394481318315241594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-22803012738726802332008-04-14T00:34:00.000-05:002008-04-14T00:34:00.000-05:00Well, I thought it was interesting, and I still think it is an awesome idea for a blog. <BR/><BR/>I love it when people think that if something doesn't matter to them, it wont matter to anyone else either.The Amiable Atheisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11591728632496066343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-64799922520043719102008-04-14T00:32:00.000-05:002008-04-14T00:32:00.000-05:00Just wanted to note that all moderate to liberal protestant denominations ordain women. Actually most of the churches I've been a member of including my current had/have women pastors. I've been enjoying your posts on this. Interesting to read.Dwighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01022414933969854363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-3819045287544766242008-04-14T00:30:00.000-05:002008-04-14T00:30:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dwighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01022414933969854363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-85450590427365452142008-04-13T23:07:00.000-05:002008-04-13T23:07:00.000-05:00Hi Hank. The truth is that I'm experimenting. If I have readers, I'll keep doing this. If not, I'll write about something else. These post show Christians how they are viewed by non-believers and show non-believers a glimpse into something they usually avoid. I realize that this particular service wasn't that interesting, but I'm trying to do this once a week. It will matter when Christians take notice and start giving me feedback.Oliverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12189376308772445304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3730010905668737133.post-81090419019083302622008-04-13T21:55:00.000-05:002008-04-13T21:55:00.000-05:00I'm curious. Why are you visiting churches and providing descriptions of their respective services? Does it matter?Hankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15243840232233423724noreply@blogger.com